84 Comments:

• When the shelters are full of "adoptable" animals who are still being put to sleep after stays there because there are not enough homes for them (and all the while people are paying others to breed yet more animals, forgetting those who are languishing unwanted and unloved in the shelters), I don't understand why PETA is the "bad guy." The "shelters" in rural areas such as in rural North Carolina often don't even have on-site staff or even indoor facilities. "Perfectly adoptable"? So why is no one adopting them? (And, so often, those who do take these animals not to make them parts of their family but instead chain them outside for their entire lives, often without shelter from the elements.)
  
  People who demonize loving hands from groups such as PETA who give a gentle escape to animals languishing in a world that DOES NOT WANT THEM are incredibly foolish. And I hope that you detest animal breeders as much as you demonize PETA.

  By  Perlemanberg, at 9:22 AM, October 21, 2006  

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• to Perlemanberg: So then by your logic, we ought to euthanize unwanted children in overcrowded orphanages too? If any group is going to regard animal life so highly, I would expect it from PETA.

  By  Steve, at 1:03 AM, October 22, 2006  

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• I worked in a pretty large humane society a couple of years ago, I used to constantly hear about how people would rather give their money to PETA, since they were about 'helping' the animals. The fact was they still euthanized a higher percentage of their animals than we did, but somehow it's viewed as acceptable when PETA does it.
  
  PETA makes excuses for why it's ok when they do it, and continue to solicit funds from donors, all the while casting shelters with the same goal in mind in a completely negative light.
  
  If they have a better solution to animal overpopulation, they should put it out there.

  By  Anonymous, at 9:31 AM, October 23, 2006  

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• If you remeber the story perlemanberg,PETA was not euthanizing the animals they were murdering them.The arresting officer said they weren't license to euthanize animals the article also states that they were hiding the animals bodies which is a sign of murder.

  By  Anonymous, at 4:46 PM, October 23, 2006  

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• PETA is located in Virginia, not North Carolina. Virginia's euthanasia rate has been steadily dropping - those animals could have been easily placed.
  
  As to why perfectly adoptable animals don't get adopted - you have to get the community working together and get them out before the public. See the library at www.nokillsolutions.com - look up building a no kill community. Virginia has a good s/n program and one city using nokillsolutions is already at no-kill of adoptable animals.
  
  As far as detesting animal breeders, no, I don't detest ethical breeders. There are more unwanted and unplanned animals born than euthanasias, already. If we can prevent these unwanted and unplanned litters, we're in equilibrium. Wasting money beating up responsible folks who have wanted and planned litters is illogical and counterproductive.
  
  This whole "detest breeders" kick is a crock.

  By  Anonymous, at 11:01 AM, October 26, 2006  

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• 1) The PETA veterinary technician (the woman) was perfectly trained and licensed to administer euthanasia drugs...in Virginia. But they were were arrested in North Carolina. But let's not go throwing words like "murder" around as if they were haphazardly swinging syringes around and taking bets on where and in what they'd land.
  
  2) There's no such thing as an "ethical breeder." For every puppy or kitten who is created from nothing by a breeder, another lonely animal dies in a shelter--that is, IF S/HE'S LUCKY. Most "no-kill" or seldom-kill shelters have a closed-door policy, meaning they do not take in stray animals (the neediest of the needy), they do not take in sick animals, they do not take in dangerous animals, and they do not take in otherwise unattractive or "unadoptable" animals, all the while feeling so good about how they have such a good ratio of adoption placement over euthanasia. But all they do is leave it someone else to do the dirty work, *IF* anyone else exists.
  
  Most of these unwanted animals are usually the result of peoples' carelessness in not spaying or neutering their animals. How about you all call PETA and pretend to live in Norfolk, and see how quickly you can get your dog in to their low-cost spay/neuter clinic. I hear their waiting list is months long. But yeah, I'm sure you're right that they're not doing anything to address the overpopulation of unwanted animals, right?
  
  Look, "no-kill" proponents have their hearts in the right place, but your arguments are emotional and not based in reality. You can't snap your fingers and put an immediate end to euthanasia and have all of these animals be taken care of. There just are not the quality homes for them, people to go into a commitment that can go about 15 years for dogs, about 20 years for cats.
  
  But you know what? It really doesn't matter what you all think. I'm proud of my PETA membership because I know that I can count on them to do what's best by the animals despite what their detractors say.

  By  Perlemanberg, at 7:14 PM, October 26, 2006  

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• PETA is pure evil.
  
  The have a high rate of murdered animals while protesting the other organizations that also euthanize animals - but do far in the more in the community to educate people and protect animals.
  
  They also employ people who BOMB buildings, and give DEMONSTRATIONS TO STUDENTS on how to build fire bombs. And these lovely people who bomb buildings compare themselves to the likes of Ghandi and Dr. King.
  
  Anyone stupid enough to donate money to PETA without fact checking the organzation (hey, their non-profit that means their tax records are up for grabs - go see how money they waste!) should have to take the place of an animal in a shelter.
  
  No one PETA knows what real problems are about. Try hacking it a third-world country folks, where finding drinkable water is impossible. Go live in a dictatorship where you have no rights to protest that someone ate a hamburger. Hell - try being homeless here in America!!!
  
  Grow up PETA lovers.

  By  Anonymous, at 9:50 AM, October 27, 2006  

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• Perlemanberg what is your problem.Any one who says that what PETA did is normal euthanization is out of touch. That was sneaking which makes their murder unexcusable. I am a animal lover but I hate PETA. And another thing, breeders are not the problem. It's not their pets that turn out in these shelters. It's not their pets that turn out on the streets. Most responsible breeders either keep their pet or find it to a loving responsible home. They do not contribute to pet overpopulation. Unfortunately those lies PETa has spread has gotten to your head.
  Do you know the facts.Have you seen their PETA stupidity. They are more interested in stopping farming,banning pets and other stupid things than helping animals. They only save 32 dogs in Katrina last year and was bragging about when much more poorer onganizations such as NOah Wish saved much more with less. Like I said i love animals but I don't like these sources that put promote nonsense.

  By  Anonymous, at 5:33 PM, October 27, 2006  

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• Sometimes you can't find
  homes for all unwanted
  animals.I think the best
  way is to euthanize them then
  they wont suffer.PETA is not the
  bad guy here, The people who have
  pets should SPAY OR NEUTER their pets.
  The people you should be upset with are
  people who don't take care of their pet.
  
  Spay and Neuter!
  
  The number of animals entering
  shelters greatly outnumbers those
  families looking to adopt, and an
  estimated 5 to 7 million dogs and
  cats are euthanized each year simply
  because there are not enough homes.
  
  Keep the following facts in mind
  when considering whether to spay
  or neuter your pet On any given day,
  10,000 human beings are born in the
  United States. But on that same day,
  70,000 puppies and kittens are also born.
  
  Each year, more than 12 million dogs
  and cats are killed in shelters across
  the country. Most are less than 18 months
  old and about 90% are healthy and adoptable.
  
  
  Spayed or neutered pets are healthier
  because it decreases their risk of breast
  and uterine cancers, cystic ovaries and
  prostate problems.
  
  
  Spayed female pets never have heat
  periods, so male dogs or cats do not
  congregate in your yard.
  
  
  Neutered males are less likely to
  run off to be hit by cars or get
  into fights, which saves vet bills
  and/or the loss of your pet.
  
  
  In just six years, one unspayed
  dog and her offspring can produce
  up to 67,000 more dogs!
  
  
  In seven years, one unspayed cat
  can produce up to 370,000
  additional cats!
  
  
  So Please SPAY and NEUTER your Pets

  By  Anonymous, at 7:48 PM, October 27, 2006  

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• ◦º°We need more Love in our world not Hate. Love our Children and be kind to all Animals. Love our Earth it's the only one we have..¸¸¸·´¯`·.¸¸.ஐ

  By  Anonymous, at 8:03 PM, October 27, 2006  

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• I apologize if I somehow wasn't clear, but to clarify my point--for every animal whom a breeder creates to be bought into a home, as I said last night, another animal dies lonely and unwanted in a shelter. In other words, for every animal whom someone pays good money for--animals who were indefensibly created for no other reason than for greed--an animal who could have been adopted from a shelter. Everyone likes to whine about the "perfectly adoptable" animals getting put to sleep. And you defend breeders? Are you kidding me?
  
  I'd seen news stories about the work that PETA members did--alongside members of other animal protection organizations--in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. It wasn't just about the number of animals whom they took back with them in their truck or whatever. These people waded through that potentially deadly water to enter abandoned homes where animals were left who would otherwise most likely die. Some other organizations had set up a big central area where all of the animals were taken for trying to reunite animals with their people. Hey, here--I just Googled this one:
  
  http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=92287&ran=142651
  
  Also, PETA isn't just about saving *an* animal here and there, but changing the ways of the land...a monumental task for any movement. In this case, they were instrumental in getting the federal government to enact legislation to include companion animals in disaster and evacuation plans. Consider how many people put their own lives in danger because they're not allowed to evacuate with their animals. Screw that! I'm not abandonming my animals!

  By  Perlemanberg, at 8:33 PM, October 27, 2006  

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• Perlemanberg: You're glossing over my point. PETA advertises itself to the general public as an organization that loves animals SO MUCH that it will do anything to save them. People donate money to them on this basis.
  
  Yet, they use that money to kill animals. This is "false advertisement".
  
  If everyone knew this, very few people will donate money to PETA. I suspect that's why PETA doesn't come clean on this point. They want to hide behind this mask, for the sake getting money.
  
  And if PETA's solution to animal suffering is euthanasia, then why do we even need PETA, when Animal Shelters are alredy doing this at taxpayer expense?

  By  Steve, at 9:23 PM, October 27, 2006  

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• This is what you should be pissed about
  
  http://www.petauk.org/feat/dogcatfurUK.asp

  By  Anonymous, at 9:53 PM, October 27, 2006  

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• The poor dogs and cats are being
  USED AS FOOD, SKINNED ALIVE,
  thrown from a truck and into
  BOILING WATER ALIVE!! in China.
  Some of them are PREGNANT,
  Some of them are PUPPIES, KITTENS,
  GOD HELP THEM!!! The dogs they like
  to skin are "German Shepherds"
  and "Golden Retrievers"
  and mixed dogs. The cats they
  like to skin are the "Orange Tiger Cats"
  or the "Gray Tiger looking ones."
  Even puppies and kittens are skinned
  alive because their fur is softer.
  After what I've read and saw they
  are ALL IN HELL OVER THERE!!
  In one of the videos after the Cats
  were BOILED TO DEATH! they were
  looking at each cat LAUGHING
  at them!! Fur ranch workers were
  also videotaped laughing while peeling
  the raw, bloody skin from the bodies
  of Cats and Dogs who were still clearly
  alive and conscious. HOW SICK!!! HOW HEARTLESS!!!!

  By  Anonymous, at 9:57 PM, October 27, 2006  

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• I have read more than half of
  the world's fur products are
  imported from China, a country
  where there are no animal welfare
  regulations and animals suffer
  the worst kinds of abuses.
  Among the rabbits, coyotes,
  foxes and other animals, millions
  of cats and dogs are brutally murdered
  for their fur. Many of them still wear
  collars and ID tags, an indication that
  they were stolen from loving guardians
  to be turned into fur trim and trinkets.
  Dog and cat fur exported to the U.S.
  is often deliberately mislabeled
  as being from another species, so many
  consumers who purchase it are wearing
  the fur of a dog or cat without
  knowing it. A new investigation of
  the Chinese fur industry revealed dogs
  and cats packed into wire cages and
  stacked by the thousands onto trucks.
  The footage documents fur farm workers
  throwing cages from the tops of trucks
  to the ground, a ten-foot drop that shatters
  the legs of many animals inside, then
  poking animals through the wire mesh with
  wooden poles. Animals are then killed by
  hanging, strangulation or electrocution,
  but investigators also witnessed
  some animals literally being skinned
  alive and then thrown onto a pile of other
  dead and dying animals. Some continue to
  live their eyes blinking and their hearts
  visibly beating inside their exposed
  ribs for up to ten minutes.
  
  Now that is murder!

  By  Anonymous, at 10:06 PM, October 27, 2006  

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• I CAN STILL HEAR THEIR SCREAMS
  
  
  
  The men grabbed each cage off this huge truck and threw them to the ground - as high up as 30'. The cries of these adorable dogs and cats as they hit the ground sent me into shock. Several dogs and cats crammed into each cage, many already bloodied and many whose bones would break upon impact. I can still hear their screams.
  
  As I watched the video progress, I realized that I was crying. The screams of live dogs and cats as they were skinned alive, their big eyes begging for mercy and receiving none, ripped my heart out and brought incredible rage from deep down inside. The next shots of cat pelts laid on the floor with all the dead bodies still twitching in piles cast aside like garbage, would have driven someone with a weak stomach right to the bathroom. It hardened my resolve against trading with barbarians. I can still hear their screams.
  
  More pictures of dogs being chained - the worker jerking and tightening the chain while the eyes of incredible pain stared at the camera - prepared them for skinning, alive. I don't know what sound you call dogs and cats as they are being choked and then a knife taken to them right then and there and skinned. To me, it was screams so horrific, I can still hear them two days after I watched the video.
  
  This is an everyday operation by "businessmen" who drive their trucks on the street like a produce truck would in the U.S. It's estimated these barbarians skin millions of dogs and cats every year - while they are alive. As I watched these "workers" go about their barbaric practice, I wondered how Americans could continue supporting them with their consumer dollar? This is Communist China in all its brutality. The skinning of live dogs and cats is done for money. These barbarians sell the pelts and toss the "meat." These pelts are illegally being intertwined with fake fur for many retail items being sold in the U.S., i.e. doll clothes and into fabric for human garments, i.e. parka hoods and sweaters. That's right: That Christmas gift sitting under the tree - if it came from Communist China - most likely is made from the fur of a dog or cat skinned alive.
  
  
  Help the poor dogs and cats
  and other animals.. Help Them!

  By  Anonymous, at 10:14 PM, October 27, 2006  

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• Steve, there's no valid point that I'm glossing over. We're talking about innocent animals languishing in bordom and loneliness in a prison of sorts because there are no homes for them. Were the PETA workers' actions at least questionable? Sure, I'll allow that. But even if those animals had been adopted out, then it would have been different animals in shelters who'd have been euthanized in their places. Euthanasia is a fact of life and if all of it stopped...I mean, do I really need to go into depth over what would happen? Consider all of the animals who get euthanized on a monthly basis. (I think someone else yesterday posted nice stats.) Where would they all go? Can you imagine the overcrowding and how little attention--including basic things such as cleaning--could be afforded to each animal? And you seriously call the actions of those who euthanize with loving hands to be anything but kind?
  
  And you ask what good PETA does? Hopefully by now you've watched that China fur footage. Hopefully you'll watch the undercover investigations at pig farms, turkey farms, etc., which PETA has on video showing such horrible violent torture and death. It is they who bring these things to the public light. It is they who showed me this institutionalized torture which convinced me to go vegetarian and then vegan. People use as some sort of indictment of PETA that they want everyone to go vegetarian. Of course they do! Old MacDonald's farm does not exist anymore, or at least not in any significant capacity. Factory farms have taken over where mother pigs are pretty much never ever allowed to MOVE, switched from farrowing stalls to gestation crates and back and forth. Animals are routinely dismembered while conscious because there's too much demand to properly and more humanely kill and slaughter them. Even before then, animals are routinely mutilated without anything given for pain, with male animals' testicles ripped out, horns ripped out, beaks seared off with hot blades while they are full of nerve endings (despite claims that it's like "cutting off a finger nail), etc.
  
  My God, man! And you decry PETA because they give loving escapes to animals from a world that does not want them???

  By  Perlemanberg, at 8:14 AM, October 28, 2006  

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• Here's some facts.
  
  The dumping of the bodies had been going on for about a month. Police were getting suspicious that bodies of dead animals, some pregnant, some too young to have known life, were being dumped, shoved into garbage bags, and hidden in a grocery store's dumpster. They decided to have a stake out.
  
  Hinkle and Cook told veterinarians that they would find homes for the animals they were taking. Once the animals were in the van, however, there was no going back. Once inside the van, four cats, three of them kittens, were immediately put down. That same day, they were disposed of in the dumpster.
  
  That is the day police caught them.
  
  Perfectly adoptable? Two kittens of teh same litter put down the day the two were caught had been adopted.
  
  Some of the dog and cat food in the van were IAMS brand, adding to the hypocricy.
  
  Was this an act of kindness? Maybe, maybe not. However, the employees lied to the vets, saying they would find homes for them. They also illegally disposed of the animals, choosing to do something their entire organziation despises, throwing their lives away, so to speak. They also were found with several illegal drugs that they were not licensed to carry, or use.
  
  Why would they do such a thing? One is still being paid by PETA to do nothing but wait for the impending trial, which has been pushed back by PETA.
  
  Then again, PETA's dealing with animals is not so bright either.
  
  PETA's euthanisia rate has been increasing steadily over the years. The only reason why it looks like it hasn't is because PETA pads the numbers with its neuter/spaying clinic. In 2004, PETA's euthanization rate, when the spay and neuter animals were taken out of the equation, was 90.7%, almost twice as much as the animal shelter in my city. Why is it so high? PETA itself claims that it doesn't have the funding to take care of all the animals they receive. Yet, they are a tax-emempt organization and rake in about $28 million a year. They claim they are not a shelter. Then why take in the animals? Why not send them to other shelters? Their numbers are decreasing in the amount of dogs and cats that are sent to other Virginian shelters.
  
  Or, is it simply the fact that PETA pledges to wipe out all domestic animals on the planet? This isn't a hard to find fact, it's listed on their "Companion animal" webpage. Several of their employees also agree with this stance. What better way to destroy an entire species than actually killing them?
  
  ~The Bison~

  By  The Bison, at 5:14 PM, October 28, 2006  

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• Perlemanberg said "1) The PETA veterinary technician (the woman) was perfectly trained and licensed to administer euthanasia drugs...in Virginia." That is a false statement Hinkle nor Cooke are not vet techs nor licensed and they were never trained according to Virginia State requirement.
  
  Murder is the correct word for what PeTA did.
  
  Let me ask you who support PeTA and their BSL and feral cat irradiation policies a few questions.
  
  If PeTA is not an animal welfare group as they tell us time and time again, and if they are an animal rights group, is the right to life not a primary right? PeTA committed fraud when they went to Dr Proctors office and in front of witnesses promised homes, the took a mother cat and her 2 remaining kittens (all others had been adopted) to their van and killed them one at a time. Where is the ethical part of that?
  
  Next question, if you support PeTa and believe animals are sentient and disserve the same treatment as humans explain to me how you kill any mother in any fashion in front of her children, then kill the children and call it "humane"?
  
  What PeTA did has been going on in the Ahoskie area for over 18 months before PeTA was caught, hundreds of animals were dumped in the same fashion, PeTa knew, PeTA directed it and PeTA is responsible.
  
  My hopes are the IRS suspends or removes their 501(c) and the DEA jerks their narcotic license, because PeTA can't have felony convictions and remain tax exempt.

  By  Anonymous, at 8:09 PM, October 28, 2006  

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• The fact of the matter is they murdered the animals and tossed them into the effing dumpster behind Piggly effing Wiggly.
  Those facts are indisputable as they have already been admitted to on PeTA's website.
  PeTA refers to it's euthinazation activities with terms such as "animal rescue" et al.
  I hope they never rescue me.
  
  TIM

  By  Anonymous, at 8:22 PM, October 28, 2006  

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• You guyshave pretty much owned and covered "Perlemanberg" in his own feces.
  come to our forum http://peta-sucks.com/smf , where we cover more of peta's stupidity
  
  as for the anyminous fellow. You keep ranting and raving about the dog fur video from china. get your facts straight first before you praise peta.
  
  1. Those dgos are "racoon dogs" and are bred for the specific purpose of fur.
  
  2. The people skinning the dog in the video were paid to do so. No one who is going to skin any animal for the purpose of profit will skin any animal alive as it ruins the fur and will probably get thier own face ripped off by the animal in the process. .
  
  3. When the dog is tossed on top of the pile of dead skinned dogs and it looks at the camera. Did you ever notice that that one single dog is covered in blood and all the others aren't? Thats because that dofg was the only one that was skinned alive. Meaning...
  
  4. That video was STAGED.
  
  the same thing happened in australia back in the 90's. SOme filmographers went over there to film kangaroo cruelity and paid some guy to butcher a kangaroo. the UNEDITED footage showed the cameraman shouting "More Blood, etc etc" afterwhich animal cruelty charges were pressed on the camrea crew and the guy doing the slaughter.
  
  instead of using PeTA (notice the little "e" for ETHICS) as a crutch. why don't you do some research and use non peta sources for your argument

  By  Don B, at 9:26 PM, October 28, 2006  

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• Re: the animals in the China fur footage, their one video showing raccoon dogs--a wild canine--being skinned alive and another one of common house dogs and common house cats. I didn't click on the link that was posted here, but I'm sure that furisdead.com or petatv.com will have both.
  
  The suggestion that any of the footage was "staged" as if this isn't routine practice is outrageous. PETA is not the only organization campaigning against it. Even more mainstream groups like the Humane Society of the U.S. is campaigning against it. I've seen the China fur footage, I've seen video of dogs strung up and beaten and tortured for their meat in Korea (and plenty of people there acknowledge it), I've seen footage of cats boiled alive for soup in Korea (and plenty of people there acknowledge it), etc. "Ruins the fur" to skin the animals alive? What world are you living in?
  
  Re: the "illegal" drugs,used to euthanize the animals, NO--as I said, the woman was not licensed to use them in North Carolina, but was/is in Virginia. The Virginia Dept. of Agriculture had told media that they didn't train her, but the fact of the matter is that they didn't need to train her. (As for the guy not being trained, no one ever claimed that he was and no one ever claimed that he was euthanizing any animals.)
  
  Re: PETA's euthanasia rate, you're all missing the point that they're not a shelter and when they take in animals, they're usually in the worst of the worst conditions. (Sick animals who've been neglected to horrible extents, dogs who've been used in animal fighting, etc.) Re: the idea that they could have afforded to to take care of all of the animals, you're missing the point that warehousing them is nothing to be desired by anyone in their right minds who are looking out for the interestes of the animals. As I think we've established, the shelters are all full as it is. Where do you expect all of the animals to go...or do you expect them to go anywhere, or merely remain warehoused--in prison, so to speak.
  
  What are YOU all doing to reduce the number of homeless animals?
  
  Re: comparing euthanizing animals to "euthanizing" people, it seems to me that some of you are trying to project a certain radicalism upon PETA which they do not exhibit. I doubt that those of you making this comparison actually believe that animals are as important as people and promised legal rights of life, liberty, and a pursuit of happiness. Animals are in fact different and people do have a responsbility to look out for their best interests (it seems that you all agree with that), which do not include being warehoused.

  By  Perlemanberg, at 11:25 PM, October 28, 2006  

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• Just because other places buy into the staged video does not mean it was not faked. Several of PETA's videos have been rebunked and proven wrong. Why not this one?
  
  No, one needs to be trained to properly administer euthansia. If it isn't performed right, the animal will wake back up and probably would've died of suffocation in the garbage bags. It would be like asking a dentist to perform major heart surgery. It doesn't work out. I don't care if he could do it, he did not have the proper training to do so, which could've tortured the animals, nor did he have a license to carry such drugs.
  
  PETA receives more funding than any shelter in the U.S. Why, then, do they tell the people who bring in perfectly healthy animals that they'll find a home for them and then immediately put them to death. One involved an old man with his pet rabbit who he couldn't take care of anymore. He brought bedding, food, toys, and such and asked them to find the rabbit a good home. They did not even try, just sent the rabbit to death after he left. They are listed as a humane society/shelter under the Virginian government and they wouldn't have to fill out those forms if they weren't considered a shelter. But, they apparently are which is why they are having to report such things.
  
  The thing is not that they are "warehousing them." The thing is PETA has all this money that they could use for saying, "Hey, look at this dog! You should adopt him!" or "Hey, we got some kittens! Perfect companions for a good home!" but instead they use it to print out stickers that are used for vandalism.
  
  This isn't about what some people have done. This is about what an organization could do if it wasn't so focused on being attention whores and stealing animals from homes.
  
  ~The Bison~

  By  The Bison, at 11:45 PM, October 28, 2006  

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• "The suggestion that any of the footage was "staged" as if this isn't routine practice is outrageous. PETA is not the only organization campaigning against it. Even more mainstream groups like the Humane Society of the U.S. is campaigning against it. I've seen the China fur footage, I've seen video of dogs strung up and beaten and tortured for their meat in Korea (and plenty of people there acknowledge it), I've seen footage of cats boiled alive for soup in Korea (and plenty of people there acknowledge it), etc. "Ruins the fur" to skin the animals alive? What world are you living in?"
  
  hmm actually, what kind of world do you live in?
  
  Have you ever eaten bruised meat? The meat of ANY animal that was beaten? Let me enlighten you. It doesn' taste good. If you torture ANY animal, put it through a great deal of pain. It's body automatically releases specific enzymes (look back at your basic high school biology class and if you don't know it, then go back and study a bit more) Which in turn ruins the meat to agreater or lesser degree. It all depends on HOW MUCH the animal suffers. ANd you can taste it in the meat. boiling cats alive? hmm I've lived in the orient and I HAVE NEVER ONCE seen anyone do that.. and frankly I smell bullshit on your part.
  
  Now you can claim that they were "tenderizing the meat" but alas if you knew the basics of cooking, the tenderizing is done after the meat has been processed and purchased by the person cooking it.
  
  Now lets look at the dumping of dead animals in dumpsters. Have you even thought of the health ramifications of rotting corpses in a dumpster? It's not very good. and in fact there is a reason why animals are cremated after being euthanised.
  
  Show us some links to some non peta sites to back up your claims. and we can match your non peta sites with actual facts and supporting sites at least 3 for every one of yours.

  By  Don B, at 12:02 AM, October 29, 2006  

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• Sorry but PETA is in a bit of hypocrisy if it is going to protest the killing of dogs in China and then kill dogs themselves in the USA.
  
  The way I see it, PETA has done nothing to stop the dog food/fur trade in China. They're simply using the Chinese to make videos that will sucker Americans into donating money. It's all about money.

  By  Steve, at 12:11 AM, October 29, 2006  

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• You know how it is...
  
  Money talks and Bullshit walks...
  
  case in point.. PeTA

  By  Don B, at 12:14 AM, October 29, 2006  

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• Bison:
  
  What PETA videos have been 'proven' faked?
  
  I never said that PETA's vet technicians were not trained. I said that they weren't trained by the state and didn't need to be. The state said that they didn't train PETA's vet technicians, and that leads one to assume that they needed to, which is not true.
  
  It's not PETA's mission to try to convince people to adopt animals. If people are to adopt animals, they need to want to expend the time, money, love, and attention that adoption requires. That can be up to around 20 years for a cat. Up to around 15 years for a dog. It would be wholely contrary to PETA's mission to promote adoption for people who might think it's a good idea but then find their new animals tough to handle and chain their dogs in the back yard for the rest of their lives with no socialization, or put a rabbit in a cage in the back room and--sure--give the animal all the food and water needed, but no time or attention. Etc.
  
  Don, I'm not going to defend throwing euthanized animals into Dumpsters. Obviously that's inappropriate and PETA's president adamently agreed so. (Although I find it ironic that you'd take issue with rotting bodies in a Dumpster if you shove flesh down your throat to rot inside your body on a constant basis. Colon cancer, anyone?)
  
  More info about the torture deaths of dogs & cats in Korea:
  
  http://www.seoulsearching.com/DogMeat.html
  http://www.koreananimals.org/
  http://www.slate.com/id/2060840/
  http://www.friendsofdogs.net/koreandogs.html
  etc etc etc...
  
  Whether beaten flesh tastes good, Don, is irrelevant to the myth that it makes men more virile and the flesh more tender.
  
  Steve...I'm not sure how you can compare painless and quiet euthanasia of homeless animals--with the shelters filled to the brim with more waiting for people to come give them loving himes--to what goes on in Asia, including the recent worldwide story of Chinese authorities beating to death tens of thousands of companion dogs in the streets to curb Rabies?
  
  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14139027/

  By  Perlemanberg, at 8:13 AM, October 29, 2006  

  ---

• For some reason comments don't
  all fit here
  
  The link again
  http://groups.myspace.com
  /SingersSongwritersMusiciansSayNo
  ToFur
  
  I hope that works if not
  type it out

  By  Anonymous, at 8:32 AM, October 29, 2006  

  ---

• What PETA videos have been 'proven' faked?
  
  Ringling Bros. video, for an example, is a complete fraud. All of the elephants in the video except for the only elephant actually wearing the costume are African Elephants. Ringling Bros. has not used African Elephants for several years in any of its circuses. They only use Asian Elephants.
  
  The dog skinning video has already been explained why it was faked.
  
  I never said that PETA's vet technicians were not trained. I said that they weren't trained by the state and didn't need to be. The state said that they didn't train PETA's vet technicians, and that leads one to assume that they needed to, which is not true.
  
  How come they didn't need to be trained? They weren't trained by anyone except PETA, who can hardly count themselves as wonderful organization if they're training their employees how to euthanize without the state's permission. I don't even believe they were vet technicians or had any vet licensing whatsoever. The fact is, one needs to be trained to actually administer euthanisia. You don't walk up to a random person and ask them to put your dog down. It's not a put a needle in the dog and pump the junk in type of procedure. The animal, if the procedure is not done properly or the wrong dosage is given, could wake back up. This would cause stress and a panic, resulting in a tragic and horrific death of suffocation, starvation, or dehydration in the garabge bags. The fact is, Hinkle and Cook put those animals at the risk of this happening because they were not trained to do so.
  
  It's not PETA's mission to try to convince people to adopt animals. If people are to adopt animals, they need to want to expend the time, money, love, and attention that adoption requires. That can be up to around 20 years for a cat. Up to around 15 years for a dog. It would be wholely contrary to PETA's mission to promote adoption for people who might think it's a good idea but then find their new animals tough to handle and chain their dogs in the back yard for the rest of their lives with no socialization, or put a rabbit in a cage in the back room and--sure--give the animal all the food and water needed, but no time or attention. Etc.
  
  Why is is not PETA's misison to get people to adopt animals? They pound that into their message so much it is almost one of it's mission statements. This is not a question on if PETA should do more for the animals they receive. This is a question on why they don't do more for the animals they receive from owners who cannot take care of them anymore. They have 28 million dollars, several thousand of it going to an employee dumping animals into a dumpster. They could use maybe $50,000 of it to buy a plot of land to house the animals on. I'm sure with all of their members and donations, it wouldn't take that long to get a kennel and a cathouse and maybe a nice pasture for horses working. But no, they'd rather go ahead and euthanize the lot of them because they want domestic animals wiped off of the face of the earth. That includes dogs, cats, rabbits, horses, and anything else living in a home.
  
  What truly bother people about this story is not that the animals were disposed of like trash, it's that PETA's going, "Oh, you didn't know we did that? Sorry." And, showing its hypocricy by still paying the guy with continued donations. Heck, they raised a huge fuss over the Pilgrim's Pride incident and still have not forgiven the company even though the company fired all the workers caught in the abusive act and have redone their animal welfare regulations. They sit and whine and complain about Pilgrim's Pride after they fired the employees and yet when one of their own employees is found throwing animals away, it's like "Oops. Well, here's your salary, just sit at home and wait for the trial. We'll continue paying you, don't worry."
  
  Does anyone else see the hypocricy here?
  
  ~The Bison~

  By  The Bison, at 9:33 AM, October 29, 2006  

  ---

• If Peta has so much money
  I would think they would
  put the aniamls somewhere
  else not in the trash.
  What is really going on here
  is someone is mad at Peta and
  is trying to make them look bad.

  By  Anonymous, at 9:52 AM, October 29, 2006  

  ---

• And for chained Dogs...
  
  
  http://www.helpinganimals.com/f-schwarzenegger.asp

  By  Anonymous, at 10:02 AM, October 29, 2006  

  ---

• This is murdered!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
  
  
  http://www.peta.org/feat-china1.asp

  By  Anonymous, at 11:44 AM, October 29, 2006  

  ---

• If Peta has so much money
  I would think they would
  put the aniamls somewhere
  else not in the trash.
  What is really going on here
  is someone is mad at Peta and
  is trying to make them look bad.
  
  Anonymous, I do not understand where you are coming from. This entire thing is a lie? Two PETA employees did not dump animals into a dumpster, despite the fact that they were caught at the scene of the crime, had illegal drugs in their van, and even Newkirk admitted to it? There are news articles everywhere of this and the fact that the trial is supposed to be held sometime in November is undenable proof that this happened.
  
  ~The Bison~

  By  The Bison, at 4:41 PM, October 29, 2006  

  ---

• "Perlemanberg" Once again, i ask that you refer to your basic biology classes. I am of course assuming you paid attention in school.
  
  If you beat the animal and torture it, that affects the quality of meat. Hence why nay grocery store will not sell bruised meat for quality and health reasons. It's not a myth, it's a fact, as any biology teacher, vet or butcher. as for our anominous friend, make a point instead of linking your "facts" to peta propoganda. WE've already established that ANY peta videos are invalid and fake/misinformed. and any web sites that you link to that are peta owned are bias and will not carry any argument

  By  Don B, at 5:15 PM, October 29, 2006  

  ---

• Bison, I'm not sure why you keep 'speaking' as if I'm suggesting the vet techs aren't trained to operate as such. Of course they are. They just werent trained directly by the office which said that they didn't train the staffers.
  
  Re: Pilgrim's Pride, I can't believe that people can compare euthanasia to Pilgrim's Pride or to Korean dogs or to Chinese dogs or anything like that. Pilgrim's Pride? The systematic torture of chickens who are stomped on, thrown into walls, and squeezed to death? The same sorts of things that PETA finds whenever they conduct undercover investigations at these slaughterhouses, exposing them to show meat-eaters what kind of cruelty they continue to pay for when they decide to eat meat? You're seriously comparing the peaceful euthanasia of unwanted animals to this?
  
  Don--please give your biology lessons to the dog-eaters in Korea; not to me.
  
  And please don't accuse me of sending you to any PETA-owned Web sites earlier. I know my audience; I know that you don't want to see that. The Web sites I gave have nothing to do with PETA.
  
  All right, guys--I think that's it for me. I appreciate you at least reading what I've had to say. Please know that if you continue eating meat, you are subsidizing horrible cruelty to animals and if you all are so concerned about the dogs in the Dumpster, you should care a great deal about that. Please understand that you can't force people to be good adoptive 'parents' to animals--they need to want to adopt animals who they may have in their lives for the next 12-20 years and they need to want to make the effort to look into it. They need to be serious about it. Please understand that languishing for God-knows-how-long in a shelter is an inhumane lifestyle to be forced into, and that quietly and warmly being sent peacefully to dreamland is the best thing that can happen to so many animals who should never have been allowed to have been conceived in the first place, while shelters all over are full of unwanted animals and being euthanized there every day, including in Norfolk, in my community, and in yours.
  
  I'm out. Peace.

  By  Perlemanberg, at 6:21 PM, October 29, 2006  

  ---

• Bison, I'm not sure why you keep 'speaking' as if I'm suggesting the vet techs aren't trained to operate as such. Of course they are. They just werent trained directly by the office which said that they didn't train the staffers.
  
  Then show me proof they were trained to it. So far, you claim they have the training but have yet provided any degrees the two have or any proof of this. That and ALL people practicing euthanisia, even vet techs, need to go through that training and get a license to perform such an act.
  
  Re: Pilgrim's Pride, I can't believe that people can compare euthanasia to Pilgrim's Pride or to Korean dogs or to Chinese dogs or anything like that. Pilgrim's Pride? The systematic torture of chickens who are stomped on, thrown into walls, and squeezed to death? The same sorts of things that PETA finds whenever they conduct undercover investigations at these slaughterhouses, exposing them to show meat-eaters what kind of cruelty they continue to pay for when they decide to eat meat? You're seriously comparing the peaceful euthanasia of unwanted animals to this?
  
  
  I'm not comparing the acts. I'm comparing the consequences of such an act. Hinkle and Cook were caught throwing bodies away like trash, illegally euthanizing them, and lying to the general public. They received a slap on the wrist and donations being made to PETA go to their paychecks. When Pilgrim's Pride learned of the allegations, they fired all the works on the spot after doing research and have upgraded their animal welfare laws. PETA complains and whines and protests them. This is the problem with PETA. They refuse to do anything about the cruelty in their own midst and instead target other companies that have changed according to PETA.
  
  That and my diet has nothing to do with this discussion (although I'm an omnivore, not a carnivore).
  
  Euthanizing is not what we are arguing against. The fact that PETA has the highest euthanization rate in the nation is what appalls us. And, saying that they receive the worst animals isn't cutting it. Houston has a huge euthanization rate but it is only at 80%, ten percent lower than PETA's. The Houston shelters receive probably $500,000 at most for helping animals. PETA receives $28 million. Who is in better shape to help animals? Yet, who is actually helping find homes for animals more?
  
  ~The Bison~

  By  The Bison, at 6:41 PM, October 29, 2006  

  ---

• "Don--please give your biology lessons to the dog-eaters in Korea; not to me.
  
  And please don't accuse me of sending you to any PETA-owned Web sites earlier. I know my audience; I know that you don't want to see that. The Web sites I gave have nothing to do with PETA."
  
  
  I never accused you of the peta site links, i directed that at the poster who went under the anominous identity. Which i did satate as much. Although your automatic denial of said statement seems to sustpect that you are in fact the spam poster.
  
  Now when i was talking about basic biology. I was giving you facts. Not rumours or ideas but FACTS. WHen you mention the actions of people beating animals, did you ever look at what they were thinking when they did it? Now i don';t support it, but i doi know what i eat and why.
  
  I don't eat dogs, cats or rats . I do eat cows, chickens, snakwe, gators, rabbit , deer and many other things. Each and every single one dies a quick death. I've gone into a slaughter house. my family has rescued dogs form the SPCA. DSogs which peta would hae stolen and killed in a heartbeat.
  
  WHat have you done besides not eat a nugget?

  By  Don B, at 8:59 PM, October 29, 2006  

  ---

• Click here
  
  http://files.hsus.org/web-files/PDF/betrayal_trust.pdf
  
  
  ??????

  By  Anonymous, at 9:15 PM, October 29, 2006  

  ---

• It's all over
  
  http://www.oipa.org/
  
  
  
  http://www.antifursociety.org/
  
  
  http://www.oipa.org/campagne/furcatdog_introduction4.htm
  
  
  Dogs and cats are pets, not to be used as food or skinned alive.
  
  Go to these fur places yourself
  and watch how they kill the poor
  helpless animals, look into their
  eyes, hear their cries then tell
  the world it's fake.
  
  The pictures and video tell all
  with no words said
  
  Peace

  By  Anonymous, at 9:55 PM, October 29, 2006  

  ---

• Here's another website that provides more facts about PETA...
  
  http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

  By  Steve, at 10:03 PM, October 29, 2006  

  ---

• Hmm thats funny "anominous" that all those links are peta sites. Use whois to check.

  By  Don, at 10:51 PM, October 29, 2006  

  ---

• I've lost all respect for peta. The overpopulation of dogs and cats is no reason to kill perfectly healthy ones. They could have turned them over to rescues. People trusted that PETA would take care of the animals that they couldn't and PETA killed them.
  
  Had the owners of these animals known that this was going to happen, that their animals were going to die alone soon afterward instead of finding a new forever home, I doubt they would have left them in PETA's care.
  
  Boo for PETA. :(

  By  Anonymous, at 10:52 PM, October 29, 2006  

  ---

• Reputable breeders are not the problem here. BYBs and puppymills (whose dogs are sold through pet stores) are. Reputable breeders follow up on their dogs and make sure they are returned in the event that an owner can't keep the animal for whatever reason. Reputable breeders' dogs don't end up in shelters.
  
  If the government would stop seeing bybs and puppymills as beneficial to the economy, then MAYBE we would get the laws we need to stop this epidemic. But as long as millers pay income tax and taxes on the profits made off the backs of suffering animals, the government won't budge.
  
  It's a sad, sad world, but please, put the blame where blame is due.

  By  Anonymous, at 10:57 PM, October 29, 2006  

  ---

• > How about you all call PETA and pretend to live in Norfolk, and see how quickly you can get your dog in to their low-cost spay/neuter clinic. I hear their waiting list is months long.
  >
  No excuse for their waiting list being months long unless they've underfunded it. They should put some of their big $ there and actually help animals.
  
  
  > But yeah, I'm sure you're right that they're not doing anything to address the overpopulation of unwanted animals, right?
  >
  They're pretty much doing jack. I live in Virginia. They have a horrible reputation here.
  
  Richmond SPCA s/n's about the same number of pets - a single city's SPCA without the millions of dollars behind it.
  
  SpayVA s/n's many many times more pets - a voluntary fund for a single state driven by donations.
  
  Neither of those two groups have anywhere near the money behind them that Peta does, but they do a much, MUCH better job helping animals in Virginia.
  
  Peta's efforts are lame. Drink the kool-aid if you want, but those of us who live here know better.

  By  Anonymous, at 8:02 AM, October 30, 2006  

  ---

• >) There's no such thing as an "ethical breeder."
  >
  Yes, there is. They screen homes, place carefully, and guarantee a place for those animals for a lifetime.
  
  
  > For every puppy or kitten who is created from nothing by a breeder, another lonely animal dies in a shelter--that is, IF S/HE'S LUCKY.
  >
  Nope. It doesn't work that way.
  
  Aunt Sally buying a Shih Tzu doesn't displace a cat, which she's allergic to, or a pit bull, which she can't control.
  
  Animals are not simply interchangeable widgets. Getting the right animal in the right home guarantees a lifetime placement.
  
  We have way too many unplanned and unwanted litters. We have more unplanned and unwanted litters than there are dogs and cats being euthanized.
  
  The secret is to eliminate unplanned and unwanted litters - not to beat up the folks who have planned and wanted ones.
  
  
  > Most "no-kill" or seldom-kill shelters have a closed-door policy, meaning they do not take in stray animals ... But all they do is leave it someone else to do the dirty work, *IF* anyone else exists.
  >
  Nope. That's not what nokillsolutions does.
  
  Nokillsolutions is about getting ENTIRE COMMUNITES to no kill of adoptable animals.
  
  Go to www.nokillsolutions.com and go to the library section. Read about Building a No Kill Community.
  
  Many communities are well on their way, and three (Charlottesville Virginia and San Francisco are two) have used nokillsolutions to become no kill communities.
  
  They didn't outlaw planned and wanted litters - they had different mindsets, did different approaches, and prevented unplanned and unwanted litters.
  
  It worked. Which is more than I can say for Peta's approach.
  
  Nathan Winograd knows what he is doing. This is IMHO the answer to unwanted animals.

  By  Anonymous, at 8:11 AM, October 30, 2006  

  ---

• So, perlemanberg, pray tell me what the two peta employees' intentions were when they abducted the hound from the side of the road last week in Virginia?

  By  Anonymous, at 9:10 PM, October 30, 2006  

  ---

• what's this?
  
  Do youhear ythat?
  
  It sounds like
  
  *crickets*

  By  Don, at 7:51 AM, October 31, 2006  

  ---

• what's this?
  
  Do youhear ythat?
  
  It sounds like
  
  *crickets*
  
  By Don, at 7:51 AM, October 31, 2006
  
  What did you expect Don? I'm sure perlemanberg is off trying to find out how peta has justified this action. I'll save her/him the trouble and post peta's response to this.
  
  PETA spokeswoman Erin Edwards said the two women did nothing wrong and were only picking up the dog to ensure its safety. She said PETA opposes tracking collars because they can malfunction and cause painful burns.
  
  Okay, so the collars could cause burns. I"ve never heard of this happening, but for arguments sake let's say this is the case, and the two employees removed the collar for the dog's safety.
  
  So why then did they leave it on the side of the road I wonder? Couldn't they have taken it with them, and returned it to the owner when he was contacted?
  
  Do you think that they would simply return the dog and say "Collar? What collar? We didn't see any collar on the dog."
  
  No, I don't think so. Simply for the fact that the owner would have simply found the collar, and could have it fingerprinted and find out they had in fact seen and touched the collar.
  
  If they had intentions of returning the dog, they would have essentially been indicting themselves of a crime. They ditched the tracking collar so they couldn't be tracked.
  
  No, the two peta employees had no intentions of returning the dog. It was bound for a long drive with a short needle at the end.
  
  The dog (or the employees for that matter) is just lucky they weren't driving their death van, otherwise the dog never would have seen the light of day again.

  By  Anonymous, at 11:58 AM, October 31, 2006  

  ---

• Take a PILL WILL YA!

  By  Anonymous, at 3:19 PM, October 31, 2006  

  ---

• How can we help the dogs and cats on china's fur farms? The poor things are being skinned alive. :(
  
  Bye for now
  
  
  Rose

  By  Anonymous, at 3:33 PM, October 31, 2006  

  ---

• Steve your site is cool,some of the stuff you have here is cute I like it a lot:)
  
  Rose

  By  Anonymous, at 3:37 PM, October 31, 2006  

  ---

• Okay, all the Anonymous people coming in complaining about China's fur farms: This thread is about PETA employees killing animals. There was a thread quite a long time ago about China's fur farms. Just because people are debunking the fur farm video (which is fake, actually pay attention and look at the difference between the "freshly" skinned one and the ones underneath it) does not mean we do not care about the animals in China. Go complain in the China fur farm thread, not this one. If you have something to say about PETA employees killing innocent animals, then say it.
  
  Thank you.
  
  ~The Bison~

  By  The Bison, at 7:01 PM, October 31, 2006  

  ---

• The peta pictures look "fake"
  Why would they be feeding the dogs "IAMS"
  
  CLick here
  
  http://iamscruelty.com/
  
  
  
  Some of the puppy pictures look "fake".
  Why are they dressed in protective gear?
  and the guy next to him isn't?
  In some of the puppy pictures
  the dogs tongues is pulled to the
  side why is that? I looked at the fur
  farm video that you called "fake"
  The reason why one is more bloody then
  the others is because that one was just
  done and the others were sitting there
  drying up.

  By  Anonymous, at 10:46 PM, October 31, 2006  

  ---

• I guess we all have to wait and see
  what happens when court is over.

  By  Anonymous, at 11:06 PM, October 31, 2006  

  ---

• The peta pictures look "fake"
  Why would they be feeding the dogs "IAMS"
  
  CLick here
  
  http://iamscruelty.com/
  
  Some of the puppy pictures look "fake".
  Why are they dressed in protective gear?
  and the guy next to him isn't?
  In some of the puppy pictures
  the dogs tongues is pulled to the
  side why is that? I looked at the fur
  farm video that you called "fake"
  The reason why one is more bloody then
  the others is because that one was just
  done and the others were sitting there
  drying up.
  
  By Anonymous, at 10:46 PM, October 31, 2006
  
  If indeed the photos of peta's death van were fake, don't you think peta would do something about it, like you know...SUE for slander and/or defamation?
  
  Peta has never denied anything about the death van photos. Instead they remain strangley quiet about it when the subject comes up.
  
  Oh, and the protective gear...FOR PROTECTION. They're handling dead animals, a biohazard essentially, and they don't know what diseases these dogs may have had when they died, or what they could catch from them regardless.

  By  Anonymous, at 12:01 PM, November 01, 2006  

  ---

• oh ok.. and the other guy was dressed like he was going for a walk. looks funny to me

  By  Anonymous, at 12:47 PM, November 01, 2006  

  ---

• where does it say in the picture
  that that was PETA'S van? I don't see it, do you?

  By  Anonymous, at 12:49 PM, November 01, 2006  

  ---

• Who puts out that peta kills site???

  By  Anonymous, at 12:58 PM, November 01, 2006  

  ---

• where does it say in the picture
  that that was PETA'S van? I don't see it, do you?
  
  PETA has several vans registered for their organiztaion. That was one of them. They don't put their name and such on back of the bumper because that looks trashy. If it has anyone coding on it (which I doubt), it would be on the sides.
  
  The peta pictures look "fake"
  Why would they be feeding the dogs "IAMS"
  
  Because IAMS gives dog and cat food to shelters for FREE. The shelters probably gave Cook and Hinkle some for the road.
  
  Some of the puppy pictures look "fake".
  
  Then why hasn't PETA claimed they are fake? Maybe because they're not.
  
  Why are they dressed in protective gear? and the guy next to him isn't?
  
  Dead animals in a dumpster can attract a lot of nasty items. It was also undetermined on what they died from to begin with. That "guy" isn't handling the animals, now is he?
  
  In some of the puppy pictures
  the dogs tongues is pulled to the
  side why is that?
  
  That happens when an animal dies. The jaws get lax and the tongue sticks out until rigor mortis takes effect.
  
  I looked at the fur
  farm video that you called "fake"
  The reason why one is more bloody then
  the others is because that one was just
  done and the others were sitting there
  drying up.
  
  With the way the fur farms are doing it, those animals take probably three to five minutes to skin. Blood begins to harden arond four. That still leaves no time for the animal to look cleaner.
  
  Who puts out that peta kills site???
  
  Someone who wants to help educate the public about how PETA is actually run and what PETA does not want you to know.
  
  ~The Bison~

  By  The Bison, at 4:47 PM, November 01, 2006  

  ---

• Peta's vans do have names on them.
  
  No name on peta kills site because
  someone is mad at peta for whatever
  and are trying to make them look bad.
  
  Fur Farm... They all looked bloody,
  some more cuz some were just done or
  suffered more trying to get away means
  some were beaten more. It is very hard
  to fake a video.. Pictures can be made fake.
  The BLOOD, CRIES, cut off paws and ears
  ARE REAL! THEY ARE IN HELL OVER THERE!
  That poor animal in the video
  was skinned alive nothing fake
  about that!
  
  
  They would not use IAMS
  click here and see why
  
  http://iamscruelty.com/
  
  
  One guy was not in protective gear
  and he was picking up dead dogs
  some pictures look old too.
  Peta has so much money I really
  think they would put them in graves
  in a nice place.. poor people put
  dead things in trash. Peta has lots
  of money right?
  
  
  Dogs tongue was pulled to the side
  like you would see in a cartoon.
  I saw my mom die and i has 2 pets
  die in my arms at different times
  the tongue never fell out.
  
  
  I guess we all will see what really
  happen after they all go thru court.

  By  Anonymous, at 12:24 PM, November 02, 2006  

  ---

• I'm not saying Peta are Angels
  but, there are people out there
  in our world who don't like peta
  cuz they get the trash on people.
  
  I know in my heart PETA did alot
  of good, made some animals lifes better
  I saw it on the News, I read it in the paper,
  A lot of people talk good about them too.
  YES there will be some people who don't like peta.
  Them are the ones peta got the trash on

  By  Anonymous, at 12:38 PM, November 02, 2006  

  ---

• Peta's vans do have names on them.
  
  No name on peta kills site because
  someone is mad at peta for whatever
  and are trying to make them look bad.
  
  
  On the back bumper? Who puts the name on the back bumper of a van? That's the only picture on that site of the van, the shot with both doors open and only the bumper showing.
  
  One guy was not in protective gear
  and he was picking up dead dogs
  some pictures look old too.
  
  
  Has gloves on. And the pictures were taken in June/July.
  
  Fur Farm... They all looked bloody,
  some more cuz some were just done or
  suffered more trying to get away means
  some were beaten more. It is very hard
  to fake a video.. Pictures can be made fake.
  The BLOOD, CRIES, cut off paws and ears
  ARE REAL! THEY ARE IN HELL OVER THERE!
  That poor animal in the video
  was skinned alive nothing fake
  about that!
  
  
  Please read this website http://www.furcommission.com/news/newsF08q.htm before making any further claims.
  
  Dogs tongue was pulled to the side
  like you would see in a cartoon.
  I saw my mom die and i has 2 pets
  die in my arms at different times
  the tongue never fell out.
  
  
  Did you ever euthanize either one of them? Or, after the two passed on, leave them alone for a while?
  
  ~The Bison~

  By  The Bison, at 6:08 PM, November 02, 2006  

  ---

• Did you ever euthanize either one of them? Or, after the two passed on, leave them alone for a while?
  
  ~The Bison~
  
  No tongue was hanging out.
  Your link wont work

  By  Anonymous, at 7:20 PM, November 02, 2006  

  ---

• No tongue was hanging out.
  
  You never answered the question.
  
  Your link wont work
  
  Copy and paste, dear.
  
  ~The Bison~

  By  The Bison, at 7:33 PM, November 02, 2006  

  ---

• My vet put my dog to sleep
  because she had cancer, I did
  stay around to make sure she
  was gone. No tongue came out.
  
  My cat died in my arm too
  at home. No tongue came out
  of his mouth.
  
  The link still wont work
  I get a blogger page.

  By  Anonymous, at 8:05 PM, November 02, 2006  

  ---

• Yeah he had gloves on and the other guy was dressed for halloween :)

  By  Anonymous, at 8:20 PM, November 02, 2006  

  ---

• The two guys were together
  still looks funny to me
  
  Rose

  By  Anonymous, at 8:22 PM, November 02, 2006  

  ---

• On the fur farm videos I saw
  4 some were of dogs being skinned
  cats and the one were talking
  about.. All of them were so real
  I still hear the cries and it still
  bothers me

  By  Anonymous, at 8:26 PM, November 02, 2006  

  ---

• I looked at the video again.
  God it bothers me, I wanted
  to see what what you mean..
  I saw the man with the butcher’s
  apron on banging their heads
  on the ground and hitting them
  with something that looked like
  a hammer and then I saw the other
  guy skinning it alive in a leather
  he must be the guy that skins them
  after the other guy beats them.
  The background sound sounded the same.
  They were skinned alive.. god!
  I'm done with looking at them videos
  The poor thing was skinned alive.
  :(
  
  Sorry for posting this in the
  wrong place before posting it
  here with what we were talking
  about before
  
  Nite nite

  By  Anonymous, at 10:46 PM, November 02, 2006  

  ---

• My vet put my dog to sleep
  because she had cancer, I did
  stay around to make sure she
  was gone. No tongue came out.
  
  My cat died in my arm too
  at home. No tongue came out
  of his mouth.
  
  It doesn't just pop out. My dog sleeps with her tongue sticking out like the ones in the picture though, now that I think about it. The jaws and muscles relax, allowing it to slip out.
  
  The link still wont work
  I get a blogger page.
  
  Are you copying the link from the page and pasting it into the address bar? It works absolutely find for me if I do that.
  
  ~The Bison~

  By  The Bison, at 3:40 AM, November 03, 2006  

  ---

• When my dog died, the tongue did come out. It's b/c the muscles relax. If you put a dog to sleep and just leave it lying there, that's what happens.

  By  Anonymous, at 6:22 AM, November 03, 2006  

  ---

• when my pets died no tongue
  came out of their mouth

  By  Anonymous, at 7:20 AM, November 03, 2006  

  ---

• The only time my pets tongue
  came out when it ate or was playing lol

  By  Anonymous, at 7:21 AM, November 03, 2006  

  ---

• Will this site do what they
  say they do? Will they help
  them? I need to know.
  
  Thanks
  
  
  http://www.furkills.org/index.shtml

  By  Anonymous, at 11:16 AM, November 04, 2006  

  ---

• Would someone please explain why peta hasn't sued for these "fake" pictures yet. Peta's record is one full of vindiction, never afraid to cry wolf. If indeed the photo's are not real, and they really weren't peta vans, and it really wasn't IAMS dogfood in the van, then peta would have a very open and shut case, and would put petakillsanimals out of business for good. Peta has never denied anything about the deathvan story, they simply create rhetoric and avoid the tough questions.
  
  As for the tongues hanging out of the dog's mouth, some animals will die with their mouth hanging out of their mouths. Some don't. If the dog was still warm when they threw it, the impact from hitting the ground could have caused the mouth to open and the tongue to hang out. There are several possible explanations for why a tongue could be hanging out of a dead animals mouth.
  
  All of you defending peta are simply grasping at straws and further deceiving yourselves. There's a wide world of truth out there, and once you open your eyes and let reality set in, it might come as a shock, and you probably won't like it. But life isn't fair, it's not nice.
  
  Peta kills animals, they got